本帖最后由 jjborn 于 2012-6-18 10:17 编辑
PES hits back: Konami accuses FIFA of copying, reveals truth behind licenses and explains Seabass' new role 职业进化足球反击：科乐美指责 FIFA 抄袭，揭露授权背后的真相以及鲈鱼哥的新角色
Jon Murphy has had enough. I can see it in his face as we sit down for our interview in Konami UK's Chiswick offices. And I can feel it in every answer he delivers to all the questions I put to him. 我们在英国奇西克的科乐美办事处就坐备采访时，肿么肥（Jon Murphy）的脸上和他对我们提问的每一次回答中流露出，他已经受够了。 Perhaps it's not surprising. The Konami veteran has spent years as Pro Evolution Soccer European team leader banging the PES drum, but the last few have, by his own admission, been the most galling. As EA's FIFA series has pulled away from PES - the game so many of us played religiously "back in the day" before turning to the dark side at the beginning of this generation - he's had to accept second place. A distant second place. And doesn't everyone know it. 这或许并不意外。科乐美达人们花费数年苦心经营职业进化足球并使之成为欧洲领头羊，但最近几年坦白说科乐美非常难堪。因为艺电的 FIFA 系列已经甩开职业进化足球几条街，我们曾经虔诚忠守的职业进化足球，在现世代的一开始就步入黑暗。科乐美不得不接过几条街之外第二把交椅，这并不是尽人皆知的。 Still, the frankness with which he discusses PES' problems surprises me. During our chat Murphy explains Shingo 'Seabass' Takatsuka's shock exit from the console PES team, accuses FIFA of copying, alleges EA locks out Konami from licenses and delivers some home truths to fans of the football video game genre who, he believes, need their heads banging together. 然而，肿么肥在讨论职业进化足球窘境时的坦然让我很吃惊。在和么肥的交流中他透露鲈鱼哥（高冢新吾）匪夷所思地离开职业进化足球制作组，他同时指责 FIFA 抄袭， 声称美国艺电将科乐美拒于授权之门外，还将向足球游戏玩家透露一些令人不愉快的真相，他相信玩家们会需要交流。 Fair play, I say. For too long the enigmatic Japanese company has shied away from tackling the problems its once all-conquering football franchise has suffered from in recent times. As PES 2013 - a game that may match FIFA in terms of quality - nears release, the next-generation looms and series overlord Seabass is finally off doing something else, perhaps some aggression is just what we need. 我要说的是公平竞争，长久以来这个高深莫测的日本公司一直在避免提及 FIFA 所向披靡的足球特权，然而近几年这种特权让科乐美菊花剧痛。因为职业进化足2013 --- 从质量上可以媲美 FIFA 的足球游戏 ---
已接近发布，次时代的即将来临也让大佬鲈鱼哥最终退出去做其他事情了，或许我们需要的，就是反击。 （1）I've heard good things about the game this year (see Martin's PES 2013 preview), and now I've played it I can see why. But I know what our readers will say: I've heard that before, why should I believe PES is better now? You must see this reaction. How does that impact on the work you do? （1）对于今年的游戏的优势，之前就有所耳闻（参考么肥的职业进化足球前瞻），现在我玩过了所以知道理由。但是看官们会说“我以前也听过这些屁话，现在凭啥相信职业进化足球会更好？”你一定见过这种反应，这对你的工作有影响吗？ Jon Murphy: It does have a lot of impact particularly on what I do, because my job is to try and get the team to have a deeper connection with fans and obviously that's not always easy because they're over in Japan and a lot of them don't speak English. So there's a lot of filtering that has to be done on that process. 肿么肥：影响老大了，俺干的活儿就是让俺们制作组和粉丝间互插得更深，这明显不是个轻松活儿，粉丝不只是小日本鬼子，大多英文也不好，所以开工后还还得过一大堆流程坎儿。 I understand where the fans are coming from, because in past years we have talked about going down a certain direction and I don't think we've gone far enough down that direction. I don't think it's necessarily that we've not done what we've said. It's that we haven't taken it far enough in the past. The reason this game feel like it plays differently is because the things we've concentrated on we are pushing to the logical conclusion rather than holding back. 俺知道粉丝的都是哪儿的，因为前些年俺们讨论过定向发展的问题，俺不觉得俺们发展的足够到位。俺们不是没有兑现承诺，而是走的还不够远。今年的游戏玩起来会不一样，俺们致力于把事情推向一个合理的结果而不是阻碍其发展。 The reason for that is to do with the setup of the team now. The organisation within the team has changed. We've got new producers coming through. We've got a new guy called Kei [Masuda]. It's not just him - there are other key people in other positions. The team structures have changed and the way they work together has changed. 这和新团队的构建有关。团队的构成已经发生了变化，俺们有新的制作人増田慶，不止是他，还有其他关键人物。构成已经变化，工作方式也随之改变。 At the moment we're seeing finally trust in our plans, and full conviction with what we want to see through. In the past, a good example is the manual passing system we brought about several years ago, but we never took it to the stage where it was really completely hands off. This new team is now willing to take those risks. 此刻俺们对自己的计划深信不疑，坚信能看到俺们想要看到的东东。举个例子，过去几年前俺们引进了手动传球系统，但是没有把它带入到陌生的平台，现在俺们新团队敢于冒这个风险。 （2）What sparked this structural reorganisation? （2）什么促使团队突然重组？ Jon Murphy: I wouldn't say sparked is the right way of describing it because it's been so gradual. It's been the struggle we've had on this generation. It's been the releasing of a couple of products, realising where we were going wasn't where the team wanted to be going, but at the same time certain people within the team had been there for a long time perhaps, didn't really know how to force it in a new direction. 肿么肥： 俺认为突然这个表述不恰当，因为这是一个平缓的过程。俺们在现世代摸索并在发行前几作的过程中，发现俺们的发展方向背离初衷。但一些迷茫已久的组员并不知道如何掉头。 At the same time there have been changes in upper management as well. There have been company changes that have been made where, as a Japanese company we see dealing directly with the consumer as key to the development of products. There have been all kinds of forces at work. 同时，管理层也在发生变化。公司也在变化，本着以客户为本的理念开发产品，工作上涌现各种新生力量。 From my side, I've been trying to open a door for consumers for some time. That's been a gradual process as well. All these things have come together this year to the point where we feel like we're back on a route we're happy with. If you talk to the team it's a route we will then continue into the future. The product this year, there are key focuses within that product they intent to push out into future years with future versions using different engines. 至于俺，俺一直在尝试为客户开启沟通之门，这也是个平缓的过程。所有的这些都让俺们觉得俺们重回正轨啦。这条路俺们要走下去，今年作品的一些特性，俺们要保持下去，即便换了引擎。 （3）For the first time Seabass is no longer the face of PES. Why is that? （3）鲈鱼哥首次离开职业进化足球，为啥呢？ Jon Murphy: Because we wanted to have a certain amount of shake-up in the team to get new blood through, and also because we've got him on new projects that aren't directly related to the PES franchise as you would see it as the traditional model. Obviously there's a lot of time and space left for a video game of the like of PES as you would understand it, but we can't sit around thinking just as video games now. Someone's got to be thinking about new projects. So he's filling that role. At the same time it gives us a chance to blood some new kids and force some new directions. 肿么肥：因为俺们需要给团队注入新鲜血液，他已经被调到一个和职业进化足球无直接关联的新项目去了，这是一个传统的模式，当然留给像职业进化足球一样的电玩游戏的时间和空间还有很多，但现在俺们不能仅仅思考游戏。某些人得去考虑其他项目，所以他走了。同时带来了给团队注入新鲜血液并扭转乾坤的机会。 （4）Was the decision to remove Seabass from PES made in part because of a degree of dissatisfaction with previous PES games that perhaps didn't go far enough? （4）做出赶走鲈鱼哥的决定是缘于对前几作职业进化足球的不满吗？ Jon Murphy: You have to think these things play a part in the decisions we've made. It's not just things like that. Seabass himself had got to a point where he was perhaps getting a bit frustrated as to how he would take the franchise on. He was right there at the start of development of PES. He was the creator of PES so to speak. His vision of football games hadn't developed as fast as the machines that could run football games. He had a more traditional view of video games rather than a modern view of video games, which is to do with the sandboxing of games and the rewards that can be offered by that. 肿么肥：有一部分吧，但不全是。鲈鱼哥或许有些泄气，不知如何担当重任。他是职业进化足球的创始人。但是在足球游戏方面，他开拓眼光的速度跟不上人家开发机器的速度。对于电玩游戏，他有的观点过于守旧，这个和游戏环境有关。 We've seen in Japan, it's fair to say, for a long time a tradition of storytelling with a video game. Whereas in America or Europe we've seen a more freestyle approach - at least it gives the impression of freestyle. Obviously a sandbox game isn't a sandbox game - you're still being led by the hand, but that impression was different between the two cultures. 公平的说，日本游戏在很长一段时间里都是以故事叙述为主。然而在美国或者欧洲，游戏更自由 --- 至少给人一种很自由的印象 --- 同样是用手操作，但是两个游戏文化给人的印象截然不同。 There are lots of reasons for him stepping over. He's not stepping down from the team. Day to day he's still involved in everything they're doing. He's within the production team for all PES-related items. He's still in the same office. He's still sat alongside the same people. He's still walking around giving input. It's not that we've booted him out of Konami. He's been moved on to what could turn into potentially some very interesting ideas on where to take football. 他的离开有很多原因。他并没有被赶走，他每天仍然参与小组的工作。他还和一切职业进化足球产品有关系。他还在原来的办公室，周围还是原来的人。俺们没有把他踢出科乐美。他被调去一个能想出更多关于足球的有趣点子的地方。 （5）So he is still working on PES the brand? （5）他还在为职业进化足球这个品牌工作？ Jon Murphy: He is still working on football for us, is probably the easiest way of thinking about it. Whether or not that's Winning Eleven or PES production stuff, or we've got a whole new IP, or a new system of delivering games, whatever it is, he's involved in our football studio still. As far as the short term goes that is PES anyway. So he's still there with PES. What that turns into later goodness only knows. But he's still there. 肿么肥：他还在为俺们搞足球，不管他还是不是胜利十一人或者职业进化足球的员工，也不管是不是有新的品牌，新的系统，管他捏。他还和俺们的足球工作室紧密相连。他还和职业进化足球在一起，未来的事谁都不晓得，至少他还在那儿。 （6）How do you access PES' current health in the UK specifically but also in the wider context of Europe? How's it doing? （6）你如何看待职业进化足球在英国乃至欧洲的健康状况？ Jon Murphy: It's probably gone through a period of intensive care and is now showing full signs of recovery. It's had a massive shot of morphine in its arm, and it's just about to get out of bed and start fighting again. 肿么肥：大概过了重点看护期，现在有复苏迹象。往手臂上打了巨量吗啡，要起床勃起再次战斗了。 （7）In the UK it feels like last year FIFA pulled away from PES, more so than in previous years. （7）在英国，相比更早，貌似去年职业进化足球被 FIFA 甩开更远了。 Jon Murphy: You can talk about two things: the quality of the product and the sales of the product. In terms of the sales of the product, clearly EA has been pulling right away from us. To be fair, if you look directly at the UK, we've never had a lead on them. We've always had a product quality lead on them, but we've never overtaken them in sales. There's always been a sales gap. The sales gap has grown in the UK. That's obvious. It's partly due to the quality of the product, which we've been improving and now stacks up easily against FIFA with this version. But it's also to do with the money spent on marketing and the money spent to lock us out of licenses. 肿么肥：分成两方面，质量和销量。销量方面，很明显美国艺电秒了俺们。平心而论，直接看英国市场的话，俺们从未胜出。虽然俺们的游戏质量，一直在他们之上！但是销量却赶不上去。在英国这个销售差距在扩大。很明显，这在一定程度上和游戏质量有关，俺们已经改进游戏质量并可以轻松抗衡 FIFA 。但这与和市场营销以及他们砸钱将俺们拒于授权之门外的事实也不无关系。 There's a certain amount of work they've done very well on PR to convince people that the gap is bigger than it actually is. 他们在公关上做的非常好，这更让人们坚信销售差距比俺们想象的大。 （8）What do you mean by that? （8）这意味着什么呢？ Jo Murphy: Opinion has turned against PES in a way that's been helped along that isn't necessarily born out by the quality of the product recently. There was a period of dissatisfaction with the product with good reason - several years - where we didn't know where we were going. But recently the quality of the product has come back, and I don't think we've been given proper respect for that because so many have bought into the idea that FIFA is better, just in the same way people bought into the idea PES was much better than FIFA in years gone by, and it took a while for them to get out of that situation because it was so ingrained. We're now seeing the opposite's true. There's an automatic assumption now that FIFA is just better. 肿么肥：大家认为，以现在的质量，职业进化足球还出个毛啊。曾经有几年，想要骂俺们不乏理由，那时俺们迷失了方向。但是最近的游戏质量已经好转，俺觉得俺们没有得到足够的尊重，因为很多人被 FIFA 更好的观点先入为主了，就像先前大家觉得职业进化足球秒杀 FIFA 一样。隔壁逃离这种定性思维的影响花了不少功夫，因为这是根深蒂固的。现在反过来了，FIFA 更好已经成为定性思维。 For example, if you look at satisfaction with online experience, we get a lot of complaints from people saying they're not happy with the lag in PES, and that FIFA has perfect online play. We all know if you play FIFA online you have a whole series of problems. I'm not saying we're better online or they're better online, but the opinion swung around to put us under the microscope more than them these days. I also think we don't get enough recognition for the way we tend to innovate still and they do still tend to follow a lot of what we do. 例如，就联网体验的满意度而言，俺们收到巨多投诉，说玩家对职业进化足球的延迟不爽，FIFA 的网战却相当完美。俺们都知道，FIFA 网战会同样有一系列的问题。俺不是在讨论谁更好，而是最近俺们貌似被丢到了显微镜底下，问题被放大。俺们的改革也没有得到足够的认可。这些改革，隔壁却依然在模仿。 （9）Can you give me any examples of that? （9）能举例吗？ Jon Murphy: If you look further back into the past of PES you can see they've obviously gone from a game that was totally different from PES to one that started copying PES to one that started taking areas PES did well further into the product they have now. 肿么肥：以往隔壁的游戏和俺们职业进化足球完全是两回事，但是他们开始抄袭，从而得到现在的 FIFA。 There's been a whole series of - and I'm sure they won't disagree with this - taking PES apart and rebuilding theirs in direct comparison. And you see other things, such as the replication of players, which we're now bouncing back at with our Player ID. And there are other recent examples as well where it seems as soon as we're announcing one thing they're announcing the same thing as well. I'm not sure how that happens by accident so often. 隔壁整个系列都是，他们对此也不会否认，把职业进化足球拆开然后直接重组成他们的。好比球员的反应和俺们致力开发的球员ID特性，特别是最近，俺们宣布啥他们就宣布一样的东西。俺不晓得这究竟是肿么回事。 （10）What are you saying there? Are you accusing EA of copying PES? （10）说什么呢？你是在指控美国艺电抄袭职业进化足球么？ Jon Murphy: Yes. I wouldn't say they are actively doing that right now. I'm saying they have a long history of copying PES to get to where they want to be. People shouldn't forget that's how they got where they are. You can give them loads of credit for how they've got to where they got to now, and you can see it as a totally valuable product in its own right that does have ideas we can all learn from, but we shouldn't forget that PES innovated all of this stuff and they did copy it. 肿么肥：椰丝。 俺不敢说他们现在还在干这事儿。俺说的是隔壁有很长的抄袭史，抄袭职业进化足球儿，按他们的意愿改造。乡亲们不会忘记隔壁是如何有今天的。你可以大加赞赏隔壁能取得今日的成就，他们的宝贵作品也有俺们可以学习之处，但是俺们打死也不会忘记俺们职业进化足球儿改革出了这一切，然后被隔壁剽窃了。 （11）Is development set up in a way that EA can react so quickly to your announced features to have them in FIFA? Or is it just a coincidence? （11）你们一发布新特性，美国艺电就有动作，这是陷阱还是巧合？ Jon Murphy: I have no idea. In many cases it must be coincidental. But then you do see them reacting to what we've done last year quite naturally. For example, this year they're talking about the AI and gameplay as being a key force, which is exactly what we were dealing with last year as a key feature. That's not a coincidence, I'm sure. I'm not going to start knocking the fact they've pushed the football genre onwards, while we were stagnating, and they've invested properly in this generation of consoles. That's really kicked them on. But it's just a bit galling at times that people throw FIFA in your face constantly, and you're thinking, well hold on, the only reason why FIFA is in the position it's in now is because of PES. And it doesn't mean to say FIFA will always occupy that position. 肿么肥：木晓得。大多数是巧合。但是你也看到了，去年隔壁做的和俺们自然地一摸一样。比如今年隔壁将人工智能和游戏性作为关键，这正是去年俺们的关键特性呀。这货不是巧合，俺肯定。 俺不是要否定他们推动足球游戏发展而俺们却停滞不前的事实，他们在现时代主机上的投资也恰到好处。只是 FIFA 老TM在我眼前晃来晃去，伤不起啊。得了省省吧，FIFA 有今天完全拜俺们职业进化足球所赐。他们在这个位置上也呆不了多久。 （12）You say EA has locked you out of official licenses. I know many people who play FIFA because of the official licenses. Is it something you will ever be able to do something about, or is that the way it's got to be forever? （12）你说艺电将你们拒于官方授权之门外。我知道许多人玩 FIFA 因为有官方授权。对此你能做什么？还是就这样了？ Jon Murphy: I hope not. You would hope that with certain licenses the people who have them would see the advantage of pushing it out to the widest audience rather than keeping it exclusive to one product. 肿么肥：但愿能做些啥。那些卖授权的，当然希望能扩大传播范围，而不是被某人垄断。 （13）You must be trying to convince them to do that. Why don't they? （13）你一定这么劝说过他们，他们为什么不卖给你？ Jon Murphy: Because at the end of the day, without going into too much detail, there are obviously a lot of existing contacts between EA and who they deal with and a lot of trust between them, and there's a lot of money changing hands, and trying to break into those situations is very hard. At the same time it should be pretty obvious that we can't compete with the massive budgets they have to throw at these things. 肿么肥：天色不早，长话短说。艺电和他们还有合同，而且他们互相信任，还有巨额银子倒手的问题，从中介入灰常难。同时，很明显俺们斗不过隔壁的金库。 So, for example, with the Premier League, we've opened up negotiations with them in the past and we've got quite close to what we thought was a good offer. It went to EA exclusively. And then after that EA have been dealing directly with the clubs themselves to lock us out of individual club deals as well. So there are several layers we have to be trying to fight through. 比如过去俺们曾经和英超磋商过，已经很接近了，报价俺们也木问题。但是艺电垄断了。之后艺电直接去和俱乐部谈，将俺们拒之门外。所以有几年俺们为之苦战。 It's something that Konami hasn't been willing to talk about in the past. I'm not sure Konami is particularly willing to talk about it right now to be honest. But I get a bit fed up with this lack of understanding about why we don't get licenses. It's not because we're lazy. It's not because we don't try and get the right licenses. It's not that we don't raise budgets to do so. Unfortunately, the reality is, EA is a massive company with large chests of money that can be brought from all kinds of IP, beyond even their FIFA brand, and we can't fight against that. So we've got to just try and be clever with what we can get out of licenses. 过去，有些事情科乐美并不想谈。坦白说，俺也不清楚科乐美现在想不想谈。但是玩家对于“为啥不买授权”的不理解已经把俺喂饱了。不是因为俺们懒，不是因为俺们没去努力，也不是因为俺们没提高预算。很不幸，事实是艺电的大金库足够买任何授权，不只是 FIFA 商标，俺们无能为力。俺们只好去尝试，或者在授权之外打主意。
But people need to understand that these are the reasons at play. There just needs to be a bit more understanding when someone says to us, you're just rubbish with licenses. It's not as simple as that. 但是大家应该理解这是有原因滴。当有人对我们说“授权方面你们就是坨屎”时，俺们需要多点理解，事情并没那么简单。 | 
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发表于 2012-6-15 17:54
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